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Permit Badge and Identification
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Holster Selection - Permit ID and Badge
Some states require you to identify yourself as a permit holder as soon as you interact with law enforcement. The Minnesota handgun carry permit requires the holder to present the laminated permit as well as a governmental photo ID, i.e. Drivers License, if and when asked by law enforcement. The MN officer may ask you to sign your name to verify your identity. Make sure your ID and Permit Card are easily accessible without flashing your weapon when you retrieve them. Although the Minnesota law doesn't specify the means of carry, we recommend that concealed carry be preferred, for the public, and for your safety as well. By its very nature, when properly done, concealed carry will not upset other citizens or motivate a bad guy to try to steal your weapon. I personally feel a badge is unnecessary and may be objectionable to authorities. For a host of reasons, this is not recommended. In fact, most seasoned private investigators only carry a photo ID and their license card. They feel that a badge will only scare away information, make them the object of criminal hatred and revenge, or land them in jail for impersonating a law enforcement officer.
Please be polite and professional and don't expose your gun, period, especially to an attacker who will first disarm you. The arrival of police after a firearms incident can be tense until they have identified the good guys. Any calls made to 911 should describe who you are, what you look like, and what you will be doing. If your weapon can be holstered when they arrive just keep calm, and with both empty hands visible, immediately follow their instructions to the letter, moving slowly. Anything in you hand, cell phone or ID or spare magazine, could be mistaken for a weapon. Never reach into your pocket. Verbalize you are the victim, he is the perpetrator, you have a permit to carry, and the location of your weapon. Don't say anything else. If police arrive while you are holding your gun, for example pointed at a suspect, maintain concentration on the suspect, do not look at the police, hold your other empty hand high, fingers spread, clearly visible, and follow their instructions to the letter if they haven't already started shooting at you. Better yet, avoid interjecting yourself into any situation which could escalate to the use of deadly force. There have been many cases in which a helpful permit holder or off duty police officer has been shot and killed by uniformed police who believed the good Samaritan was an accomplice of the bad guy.
Just as important as identifying your target, you need to identify yourself to law enforcement the instant they see you holding a gun, if not sooner. During a routine traffic stop, acknowledge your intention to stop, find a safe place to stop in a well lit area so you can assure the safety of and positively identify the officer. Turn your dome light on. Do not leave your vehicle or make any sudden movements, but keep both hands on the steering wheel with your driver's license, proof of insurance and registration if required, and carry permit if you are carrying. Stay calm, polite, and cooperative. Smile and make eye contact with the officer so he knows you are communicating. If you are carrying, let the officer know where your weapon is located before he, she, or a partner gets a glimpse of a gun anywhere in the car. Don't use the word "gun." Let the officer decide how and where the rest of the interview should proceed according to his or her comfort level. Otherwise, their training could make things extremely uncomfortable for you.
If you call in an emergency, stay in communication with the dispatch. Let them know who you are, where you are, and what you look like, and where everybody else is. In your home's safe room, you might have a spare set of keys to toss out the window so the police won't have to break your door in. Don't appear at the window with a gun. It's probably better to let the police dog do the searching. Imagine what might happen if you hear a noise in the night at home, call 911, and are sneaking around the house with a gun in your hand as police arrive.
Wouldn't this look great next to your Hi-Point? It'll be exhibit "A" at your court appearance.
If you absolutely, positively have to have one of these, I'll send it with a leather badge holder as your free gift when you make a donation to gunthorp.com of $100 or more.
***** Lawyer UP *****
Click above to see a list of local lawyers for Duluth and MN
Download this handy "BUST CARD" for a "worst case" scenario.
Dont' talk to cops - even if you are innocent - this is a must see.video..
More links to good advice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08fZQWjDVKE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA
http://www.armedcitizensnetwork.org/unintended-consequences-of-silence
John Farnum on talking to the police
21 June 07
Sage advice from criminal defense attorneys with whom I work:
When I am asked by lawyers to provide them with expert consultation in shooting cases, I always make it a point to ask several, general questions about strategies for gun owners/carriers. This advice I, in turn, pass on to my students:
The most dangerous and damaging single thing one can do in the wake of a lethal confrontation, the one act that fatally damages most claims of legitimate self-defense? Answering questions asked by police investigators, at the scene, without first insisting on having your attorney present.
Even seemingly innocent-sounding statements like, "I didn't mean to....", "It was an accident.....", "This is terrible....", and "I can't believe I did that...." are, in fact, monstrously incriminating. Attorneys tell me that the strongest part of the prosecutor's case is almost always directly founded upon indiscreet statements made, at the scene, by the accused, to police.
On the other hand, saying nothing to police carries risks also. When those on one side of the incident talk freely to the police, and those on the other side say nothing, talkers automatically go into the "victim" column on the investigator's notebook, while the silent go into the "perpetrator" column. Those assigned distinctions tend to be permanent and will color the investigation from that point forward.
The best compromise is to have your well-rehearsed tape loops ready to go. Tape loops need to be emphatic and unmistakable, but neither rude nor insulting: "Officers, I want to cooperate, but I want my attorney here first" , "I'll be happy to answer all your questions just as soon as my attorney is here."
At that point, police are obligated to stop questioning you. However, they may say something to you like, "You can go the 'lawyer-route' if you want, but it won't do you any good.", "You better start answering questions now, while you still have the chance.", "All we want to do is just clear this up.", "You'll feel much better after you talk with us." or, "We only have a few questions, strictly routine..."
What they are trying to do is persuade you to definitively rescind your demand that you have a lawyer to represent you during questioning. Once you say, "Okay, I'll talk with you," they will assume, correctly, that you've changed your mind and no longer want a lawyer. Don't do it! Continue to remind investigators that you still want a lawyer and continue to politely decline to answer questions.
So, when first confronting arriving police officers, (1) assume a non-threatening posture, with both palms turned outward and clearly visible. Make sure no guns or other weapons are visible. (2) Get into the "victim" column" right away with, "Officers, thank God you're here!" Then (3) identify yourself by saying, "I'm the one who called." VCAs don't call the police very often!
When asked what happened, say: "That man tried to murder us," pointing in the direction of the perpetrator. Then comes (4) "I'll be happy to answer all your questions just as soon as my attorney is here."
Beyond that, shut your mouth. Don't sign anything and don't "consent" to anything. If arrested, submit peacefully and without comment. When asked if you understand your rights, say "No." When asked what you don't understand, say, "I don't understand any of it."
Tape loops need to be practiced every time we go to the range. None of the foregoing may seem important, until the unthinkable happens. Then, I promise you, the nightmare will begin, made all that much worse when you don't know your lines!
The best
system to use it this:
When you are a witness and nothing more, answer questions
posed by police, but don't volunteer information,
particularly about yourself, and don't answer questions that
weren't asked. The moment you become a "suspect," politely
indicate you want to talk with your lawyer and then
immediately stop answering questions, ending the
conversation completely.
When asked, "are you okay," and you believe you are, always
answer, "I don't know." Never say you are okay, even when
you have no reason to think you are anything else.
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From John Farnum:
More
sage legal advice, from a well-known trial-lawyer and student:
"One is well-advised to quickly and discretely retreat in the face of dangerous
threats, assuming retreat can be accomplished in relative safety. There are
many practical advantages to extracting oneself from threatening situations.
One is that no court has ever sent anyone to prison for retreating!
From the standpoint of defending, in criminal court, the actions of my client,
putting forth the tedious argument that he was legally entitled to majestically
defend his position with gunfire, never giving an inch, is far from my favorite
approach. I've been in this business a long time, and I promise you that
wearisome, hair-splitting pedants do not successful trial-lawyers make!
However, even when some sort of 'retreat' is required by law, but doing so will
likely get you killed or seriously injured, then you're just going to have to
deal with the situation as best you can, worrying about legal ramifications
later. No law, anywhere that I know of, requires one to retreat, when doing so
puts him, and/or other innocent parties, in peril.
My best advice:
(1) Adopt a personal lifestyle that deliberately avoids dangerous places and
situations
(2) Be alert and aware
(3) Exit potentially threatening circumstances early on, when you can
(4) Shoot (with precision), when you have no choice
(5) Stop shooting when threats are clearly abrogated
(6) Stay alert and get to a place of relative safety
(7) Call police at your first practical opportunity
(8) When police arrive, tell them just enough so that they understand whom you
are and what role you played
(9) Otherwise, politely insist that your lawyer be personally present before
answering questions, and thereafter
(10) Exercise your right to remain silent."
Comment: In addition, understand that whatever you do, chose not to do, or fail
to do, it won't be perfect! Everyone, from media commentators, to
investigators, to judges, to lawyers, to plaintiff's experts will wearisomely
point out where, and how, you could have done it better.
And, to one degree or another, they'll be right!
Fortunately, the law doesn't require you to be perfect. The law only requires
you to be "reasonable," whatever that means!
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The NRA offers legal fee insurance in a criminal defense for reasonable rates. Select a good trial lawyer specializing in the laws of self-defense who will be available to take your call, perhaps at night. Here is another resource that may help.
Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network
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Some tape loop suggestions:
"I can't HELP you , SIR!" (sir gives you control)
"Leave me alone, PLEASE!" (please sounds like police)
"Stay away, SIR. Keep your distance, PLEASE!"
"SIR, keep your HANDS OUT!"
"Don't make me defend myself, PLEASE!"
"Don't make me shoot you." (put the burden on them)
"Somebody call the POLICE!" (even if you have a cell phone and call yourself)
"Everybody stay where you are until the police get here." (witnesses)
"I was in fear of my life, I just wanted to stop the attack and I'm too shook up to give any statements without my lawyer present."
"Officer, I'm the one who called, thank G0D you are here...he dropped
a knife over that way and you want to talk to the guy in the red leather mini
skirt & high heels because he saw the whole thing, and I don't feel comfortable
saying more till I talk to an attorney..."
It Doesn't Have to Make Sense: It's Just the Law - One Lawyer
...In any given year, a small number of gun owners will make a desperate call from jail searching for that One Lawyer to simplify their lives...
by kl jamison
There is a legend of a Texas sheriff who telegraphed the Texas Rangers for help with a riot. He found his rescue was only a single Ranger. He asked why only one Ranger had been sent and was told "One riot, One Ranger." Like most such stories, if it isn't true, it should be.
In any given year, a small number of gun owners will make a desperate call from jail searching for that One Lawyer to simplify their lives. The question is always "which one?".(1)
Other inmates of the jail will be connoisseurs of the legal abilities of various lawyers. Their opinion may be colored by recent results, which may have been affected by a turn of circumstances. Bail bondsmen are a source of information. However, the recommended lawyer may simply be the attorney who collects his bad debts.
Any phone book will devote a substantial number of pages to lawyers. It is possible to select one by calling the first listing, and profitable to the firm of Aaron, Aaron and Aaron, but not practical. The Aaron's may confine their practice to estates and trust law, personal injury law, or endangered species law, and no matter how endangered one might feel, they would not help. Advertisements help to narrow the field. A U.S. Supreme Court Justice once said that he would never hire an attorney who advertises. This justice was never in the position of making a frantic call from jail, and when he practiced law would be more likely to meet prospective clients at his Club than the jail. Legal ethics limit the amount of information advertisements can contain, which is further limited by extortionate fees for larger ads.(2) Advertising makes it possible to determine which lawyers practice criminal law, in what states, and if they take credit cards.
State Bar Associations are closed shops; in order to practice law in a state an attorney must be a member of the State Bar Association or have local counsel who is a member. In any given location three separate jurisdictions exist: federal, state and local. Each jurisdiction has its own unique rules and practices. In the nature of these things, some attorneys are more experienced in one jurisdiction than the others.
 Local Bar Associations can suggest lawyers in specific fields. |
Clients often reject lawyers in their own area in the belief that they are hopelessly corrupt. These people go to great pains and expense to get a lawyer from elsewhere. It is not clear why they think lawyers from elsewhere are different. It is said that a good lawyer knows the law, but a great lawyer knows the judge. There is something to be said for this saying. A lawyer who knows the judge knows how he will react to evidence or argument. A judge who knows an attorney is more likely to believe him. This is not a conspiracy it is human nature.
Attorneys want to get paid up front. Once an attorney enters his appearance in a case, he is stuck with it. Taking payments may not be possible. Every attorney has stories of clients who stopped paying, leaving them suffering indentured servitude. In 1924, in a real "Trial of the Century," Clarrence Darrow took the case of Leopold and Lobe without a retainer. He made new law in saving the spawn of obscenely wealthy families from a well-deserved execution. He was also stiffed for his fee. Many law firms take credit cards, as do bail bondsmen. Few people can meet unbudgeted expenses in the thousands or tens of thousands of dollars in the course of an evening. When the banks are open, it is possible for Grandma to tap her life savings, negotiate a second mortgage on the house, or a title loan on the car. The NRA's Civil Rights Legal Defense Fund provides funding, but only in cases of general significance, and only after its Board votes.(3) All these resources take time. Nothing beats a credit card for immediate payment; the ultimate cost may be less than a stay in jail. Keeping a couple of unused credit cards, one for bond and the other for lawyers could come in handy. It is also possible to hire an attorney by assigning the bail bond. However; this is only possible when the defendant pays the entire bond himself.
 Three different jurisdictions have their courthouses in a two block radius of Kansas City Missouri. |
The amount of bond and legal fees will vary with the severity of the case. When there is blood on the ground or a constitutional principle at stake the client has a "55 Gallon Drum" problem. This problem is addressed by stuffing $100 bills into a 55-gallon drum, cramming them in as tightly as possible, then wheeling the barrel into my office.(4) Many persons shop around for the lowest price. However, the objective is not a bargain, but freedom. One often gets what one pays for. It does not take much effort to plead a person guilty or go through the motions of a defense; it is therefore less expensive. Some lawyers go for volume, some are expensive.
Legal ethics prohibit a guaranteed legal result.(5) If a lawyer offers a guaranteed result, he is likely to violate other legal ethics as well, and this cannot work well for the client. It is therefore not possible to charge one fee for a successful result, and another for a guilty verdict.
It is less stressful to find a lawyer in advance of trouble. This is not a matter of finding loopholes, but of learning the rules before engaging in an activity. There are rules for scuba diving, mountain climbing, carrying a gun and self-defense; the wise participant learns them in advance. The person consulted should be an attorney. Some persons espouse "sovereign citizenship" and "common law" theories which allegedly exempt the person from any law of which they disapprove. Apostles of these unlikely superstitions claim legal success. I have been unable to confirm any such victory. I do know of two such individuals who made their situations worse. One turned a speeding ticket into a jail sentence; another turned the chance of a fair trial into a conviction. A lawyer is necessary. A weekend hunter will not find a trophy animal in the wilderness without a guide. A defendant will not find justice in the thickets of the law without an attorney.
 Talk can be expensive. |
The National Rifle Association provides a reference list of attorneys, as does the Second Amendment Foundation.(6) These attorneys can be accepted as "gun people," but are not otherwise vetted. Computer search engines may turn up others. Attorney referral services may be found in yellow pages and the internet. These resources may reflect lawyers who have purchased a place on the list more than any qualifications. Local Bar Associations may provide referrals to attorneys in relevant fields.
Armed with a selection of lawyers to interview, one must have an idea of the purpose of the interview. The first objective is to convince the lawyer of one's innocence. Criminal defense lawyers usually represent people who are guilty of something. For a criminal a conviction is a cost of doing business, for the survivor of a gunfight, it is a tragedy. It is a completely different mindset to represent an innocent man who cannot afford to lose. Next is to determine what the attorney can do for the client. Bad things usually do not happen during office hours.(7) It must be possible to reach the lawyer at two in the morning, not his voice mail but a human lawyer who can give human advice. The lawyer's retainer will be unknown until a charge is filed, although it will be some function of a 55-gallon drum, and perhaps two. The lawyer's hourly rate will give some indication. For every hour spent on the case, the hourly rate is deducted from the retainer. When the retainer is reduced to zero, bills are sent. Certain expenses become extra bills. Charges for expert witnesses, process servers, and investigators are typical. Some firms also bill for photocopies, faxes, and office staff.(8) General advice the lawyer can give about weapons and self-defense law will be useful in preventing problems. It is also important in helping the client decide if he is willing to entrust his future to the lawyer's decisions.
Some lawyers will take a small fee to be on call in the same way that they are registered agents for corporations. This gives the lawyer the advantage of a file to work from with contact information of persons to underwrite bail and perhaps an extra credit card.
Criminal defense lawyers keep prosecutors honest, a more difficult project than one gathers from watching "Law and Order." If the worst thing happens, your One best friend in the world will charge by the hour.
Kevin L. Jamison is an attorney in the Kansas City Missouri area concentrating in the area of weapons and self-defense.
Please send questions to Kevin L. Jamison -- 2614 NE 56th Ter -- Gladstone, Missouri 64119-2311 -- KLJamisonLaw@earthlink.net. Individual answers are not usually possible but may be addressed in future columns.
This information is for legal information purposes and does not constitute legal advice. For specific questions you should consult a qualified attorney.
(1) One is tempted to
suggest a near-sighted and unshaven lawyer in Gladstone, Missouri, but the
advice here is more general.
(2) Legal ethics exist for Good and Sound
reasons and are followed by members of the Bar. No smirking will be tolerated.
(3) See
www.nradefensefund.org.
Contact NRA Civil Rights Defense Fund, 11250 Waples Mill Rd, Fairfax VA 22030
nracrdf@hrahq.org (703) 276-1250
(4) The problem will then be addressed, I
did not say solved.
(5) I don't mind the lawyer jokes; I raise
my fees whenever I hear them.
(6) See
www.nra.org
or
www.saf.org.
(7) I was once called at two in the
afternoon to assist an acquaintance who had "just killed" someone. I arrived
before the detectives, which they found disturbing, but it worked out. This
timing is unique.
(8) I find such billing to be an accounting
burden, other firms delight in it.
Here are some other discussions and thoughts about handling a post shoot situation.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...76-post34.html
Sage Advice/Never talk to the police :MERGED
Question for the Attorneys/Cops
Flex your rights. Use them or lose them.
Holster Selection - Permit ID and Badge